Personal Water Craft Forum banner

1 - 20 of 46 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
hello, thanks for click in
I have a 2002 yamaha suv 1200 which purchased last summer and had some fun with it. Back in last summer it was running good, only once stuck on water which ends up with the engine compartment fill with some kind of smoke which the motor cant start. it finally started once i open the seat and let the smoke vent out. ( Is there a way to prevent this from happening? and like what is the reason?)
Other than that, just a little hard to start, i mean i have to crank for about 30 seconds before each go which i think just to pump the fuel in. Because after that the engine is pretty easy to start with.

When it gets in to the winter, things changed for me and I have no choice but to leave it outside for the whole winter.
Just tried to start it few days ago, in a 60F weather, i first found the battery completely dead. That is ok, then I use the power from my car and crank it for at lease 40 secs(let it cool down every 5 secs) which it eventually fires up, and after that, it fires every time under 2 secs.
So, kinda newbie to jet ski world, are there any required routine maintaince that need to perform which can be considered easy to do? Like change the filter( oil, and if there is a air filter). And i keep heard about Reed, will that need to be changed?
And i am thinking about add a primer ball to help with the first start how hard is it will that help it?

Oh yes, last year after I bought the ski, i use a presure gauge to measure the pressure, it end up with about 95 on each cylinder, but I was able to ride about 45mph with two souls loaded. The gauge was from harbor freight, which I think it might be a faulty gauge??? I will purchase another gauge from autozone to check the pressure again. Any thoughts on that?
So, if everthing is ok, would it still need something like, carb rebuilt or top end rebuilt or I just leave it like this?

BTW, i noticed when I hook up with a hose to the port on the ski on my drive way, the side port just barely dripping water out..Could it because my hose is too thin(cheapest hose from homedepot...) Or something bad happened?

Huge thanks here.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
Discussion Starter #2
by the way. The trim cable i believer is croded and is not moveable. Is it worth to fix it or just let it be?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,334 Posts
Ok first and foremost smoke in motor compartment is not normal. I would guess from your discription that you either have a loose exhaust hose or a hole or tear in one somewhere in the back of the ski. This needs repaired before putting back on the water. This could cause ski to sink.

If this is still an oil injected ski and not converted to pre mix I would redo all the oil lines. The oil injection is almost bulletproof but need timely maintenance that is usually severely overlooked. The lines from the pump to carb will harden and shrink causing them to break. I would do this before putting into use this spring. If they fail you toast a motor in seconds.

The 30sec start for first time of the day is not to bad. A Carb rebuilt may improve it a little but probably not to much. A "primer ball" as in boat motor type will not help your situation. A primer kit possibly. But will require removal of the choke. And still may not make starting any faster than 30sec. I'm not a fan of primers, if the carbs are correct you'll be fine. At 30sec start time your pretty good.

Putting it up for winter is no issue but putting it away properly is key to easy wake up in spring.
For winterizing always use fuel stabilizer either startron or stabil. Flush the motor well. Remove the battery. Wash inside/outside, and dry the inside of hull. Cover and store with nose of ski as high as possible to keep water out of foot wells. Any standing water in foot well that freezes can crack the hull.
Some will say full fuel tank others empty. I prefer as low as possible then I can fill with fresh first thing in spring. The battery should be stored in a warmer area in garage or back room of house to get good life from them. They should periodically be charged with a battery maintainer type charger. (.75A trickle/maintenance charger) I put mine in a small plastic tote in my back bathroom and plug it in about once a month for 5 or 6 hrs. If you need to replace your battery use a good AGM sealed type.

In spring wash it up. Fresh fuel. Grease the mid shaft with a couple pumps of marine grease. Check all cables work freely without issue and your ready.

No oil/air filters to change. Just a fuel filter.

The compression for the 1200 non power valve should be around 120/125 after rebuild. Generally below 100 and you need to redo top-end. I believe your harbor freight guage is off. at 95 you would not run very strong.

For flushing try nosing the trailer all the way down. This will help hold water in the motor. Then you should see water out of the front pisser line. If you still don't get water you just may not have enough water pressure/volume and you may need or want to install a valve in the pump supply hose so all water goes to motor when flushing. Not back to pump.

Having a working trim system is a big plus. That being said it can either be bound up in the grip on the bar. In the main cable going to pump. Or the lever system between the grip and the main cable. So before replacing the cable determine where the problem is for sure.

I think I answered everything. Let me know if I missed any.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Ok first and foremost smoke in motor compartment is not normal. I would guess from your discription that you either have a loose exhaust hose or a hole or tear in one somewhere in the back of the ski. This needs repaired before putting back on the water. This could cause ski to sink.

If this is still an oil injected ski and not converted to pre mix I would redo all the oil lines. The oil injection is almost bulletproof but need timely maintenance that is usually severely overlooked. The lines from the pump to carb will harden and shrink causing them to break. I would do this before putting into use this spring. If they fail you toast a motor in seconds.

The 30sec start for first time of the day is not to bad. A Carb rebuilt may improve it a little but probably not to much. A "primer ball" as in boat motor type will not help your situation. A primer kit possibly. But will require removal of the choke. And still may not make starting any faster than 30sec. I'm not a fan of primers, if the carbs are correct you'll be fine. At 30sec start time your pretty good.

Putting it up for winter is no issue but putting it away properly is key to easy wake up in spring.
For winterizing always use fuel stabilizer either startron or stabil. Flush the motor well. Remove the battery. Wash inside/outside, and dry the inside of hull. Cover and store with nose of ski as high as possible to keep water out of foot wells. Any standing water in foot well that freezes can crack the hull.
Some will say full fuel tank others empty. I prefer as low as possible then I can fill with fresh first thing in spring. The battery should be stored in a warmer area in garage or back room of house to get good life from them. They should periodically be charged with a battery maintainer type charger. (.75A trickle/maintenance charger) I put mine in a small plastic tote in my back bathroom and plug it in about once a month for 5 or 6 hrs. If you need to replace your battery use a good AGM sealed type.

In spring wash it up. Fresh fuel. Grease the mid shaft with a couple pumps of marine grease. Check all cables work freely without issue and your ready.

No oil/air filters to change. Just a fuel filter.

The compression for the 1200 non power valve should be around 120/125 after rebuild. Generally below 100 and you need to redo top-end. I believe your harbor freight guage is off. at 95 you would not run very strong.

For flushing try nosing the trailer all the way down. This will help hold water in the motor. Then you should see water out of the front pisser line. If you still don't get water you just may not have enough water pressure/volume and you may need or want to install a valve in the pump supply hose so all water goes to motor when flushing. Not back to pump.

Having a working trim system is a big plus. That being said it can either be bound up in the grip on the bar. In the main cable going to pump. Or the lever system between the grip and the main cable. So before replacing the cable determine where the problem is for sure.

I think I answered everything. Let me know if I missed any.
Huge thanks.
It is oil injected.
I just found something really bad, i assume the motor is running on only 2 cy. I didnt have the gauge yet it is on the way, but I will get it checked once i have the gauge.
Because When I disconnect spark plug wire from cy2 and cy3, the engine will not fire. However either cy 2 and cy 3 can fire on their own. I think i need to open the top to see what happened or I just direct need to order a top end rebuild kit just to rebuild it? Cause of the virus i have plenty of time to struggle with this.
To rebuild the top end, is this something i can bascially get it done on my driveway? does it need lift the motor out of the ski, other wise i might need to find some help.
And, the loss of the first cylinder, can be the cause of the huge amount of smoke last year?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Ok first and foremost smoke in motor compartment is not normal. I would guess from your discription that you either have a loose exhaust hose or a hole or tear in one somewhere in the back of the ski. This needs repaired before putting back on the water. This could cause ski to sink.

If this is still an oil injected ski and not converted to pre mix I would redo all the oil lines. The oil injection is almost bulletproof but need timely maintenance that is usually severely overlooked. The lines from the pump to carb will harden and shrink causing them to break. I would do this before putting into use this spring. If they fail you toast a motor in seconds.

The 30sec start for first time of the day is not to bad. A Carb rebuilt may improve it a little but probably not to much. A "primer ball" as in boat motor type will not help your situation. A primer kit possibly. But will require removal of the choke. And still may not make starting any faster than 30sec. I'm not a fan of primers, if the carbs are correct you'll be fine. At 30sec start time your pretty good.

Putting it up for winter is no issue but putting it away properly is key to easy wake up in spring.
For winterizing always use fuel stabilizer either startron or stabil. Flush the motor well. Remove the battery. Wash inside/outside, and dry the inside of hull. Cover and store with nose of ski as high as possible to keep water out of foot wells. Any standing water in foot well that freezes can crack the hull.
Some will say full fuel tank others empty. I prefer as low as possible then I can fill with fresh first thing in spring. The battery should be stored in a warmer area in garage or back room of house to get good life from them. They should periodically be charged with a battery maintainer type charger. (.75A trickle/maintenance charger) I put mine in a small plastic tote in my back bathroom and plug it in about once a month for 5 or 6 hrs. If you need to replace your battery use a good AGM sealed type.

In spring wash it up. Fresh fuel. Grease the mid shaft with a couple pumps of marine grease. Check all cables work freely without issue and your ready.

No oil/air filters to change. Just a fuel filter.

The compression for the 1200 non power valve should be around 120/125 after rebuild. Generally below 100 and you need to redo top-end. I believe your harbor freight guage is off. at 95 you would not run very strong.

For flushing try nosing the trailer all the way down. This will help hold water in the motor. Then you should see water out of the front pisser line. If you still don't get water you just may not have enough water pressure/volume and you may need or want to install a valve in the pump supply hose so all water goes to motor when flushing. Not back to pump.

Having a working trim system is a big plus. That being said it can either be bound up in the grip on the bar. In the main cable going to pump. Or the lever system between the grip and the main cable. So before replacing the cable determine where the problem is for sure.

I think I answered everything. Let me know if I missed any.
Oh yes, for the oil part. I tried to moniter the level of oil in the oil tank last year when I was riding it, it did go down in a normal speed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Ok first and foremost smoke in motor compartment is not normal. I would guess from your discription that you either have a loose exhaust hose or a hole or tear in one somewhere in the back of the ski. This needs repaired before putting back on the water. This could cause ski to sink.

If this is still an oil injected ski and not converted to pre mix I would redo all the oil lines. The oil injection is almost bulletproof but need timely maintenance that is usually severely overlooked. The lines from the pump to carb will harden and shrink causing them to break. I would do this before putting into use this spring. If they fail you toast a motor in seconds.

The 30sec start for first time of the day is not to bad. A Carb rebuilt may improve it a little but probably not to much. A "primer ball" as in boat motor type will not help your situation. A primer kit possibly. But will require removal of the choke. And still may not make starting any faster than 30sec. I'm not a fan of primers, if the carbs are correct you'll be fine. At 30sec start time your pretty good.

Putting it up for winter is no issue but putting it away properly is key to easy wake up in spring.
For winterizing always use fuel stabilizer either startron or stabil. Flush the motor well. Remove the battery. Wash inside/outside, and dry the inside of hull. Cover and store with nose of ski as high as possible to keep water out of foot wells. Any standing water in foot well that freezes can crack the hull.
Some will say full fuel tank others empty. I prefer as low as possible then I can fill with fresh first thing in spring. The battery should be stored in a warmer area in garage or back room of house to get good life from them. They should periodically be charged with a battery maintainer type charger. (.75A trickle/maintenance charger) I put mine in a small plastic tote in my back bathroom and plug it in about once a month for 5 or 6 hrs. If you need to replace your battery use a good AGM sealed type.

In spring wash it up. Fresh fuel. Grease the mid shaft with a couple pumps of marine grease. Check all cables work freely without issue and your ready.

No oil/air filters to change. Just a fuel filter.

The compression for the 1200 non power valve should be around 120/125 after rebuild. Generally below 100 and you need to redo top-end. I believe your harbor freight guage is off. at 95 you would not run very strong.

For flushing try nosing the trailer all the way down. This will help hold water in the motor. Then you should see water out of the front pisser line. If you still don't get water you just may not have enough water pressure/volume and you may need or want to install a valve in the pump supply hose so all water goes to motor when flushing. Not back to pump.

Having a working trim system is a big plus. That being said it can either be bound up in the grip on the bar. In the main cable going to pump. Or the lever system between the grip and the main cable. So before replacing the cable determine where the problem is for sure.

I think I answered everything. Let me know if I missed any.
Just borrow a OEM gauge from autozone.
Tested, 1st cy have 0 psi, second have 105psi, and the third have 110psi. I think the oil pump or something must stopped working at some point last year, which cause that smoke and the 1st cy lost compression. I believe it is time to rebuild the top end. Just got somebody quoted for $500 to rebuild it, including parts and labor, is that too much? or I can just do it my self. Just tear the carburetor apart today, find out there are oil in the oil line but how to tell if the oil pump is working?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,334 Posts
The oil pump can be taken off the motor and turned with a drill to confirm if it's pumping. The oil lines should be replaced when the top-end is done. You can use this sàme procedure to bleed the oil system after the lines are replaced.

The number 1 cyl being blown would not cause smoke in the motor compartment.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
The oil pump can be taken off the motor and turned with a drill to confirm if it's pumping. The oil lines should be replaced when the top-end is done. You can use this sàme procedure to bleed the oil system after the lines are replaced.

The number 1 cyl being blown would not cause smoke in the motor compartment.
Thanks.
Is fullboreonline.com good? cuz i plan on take off the cylinder part and send it to them let them rebore everything and return back as a bolt on kit I believe. other wise I am gonna take off the head tomorrow to see how bad the damage are. But for a 2 stroke engine this old, 110psi and 105psi are kinda acceptable?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,334 Posts
I know nothing of "fullbore".
If you had 110 across all 3 cyl's you'd be in pretty good shape. Number 1 being 0, you have pretty extensive damage. You'll need to determine what happened that caused that cyl to fail as you disassemble so you don't relive it again. Either an oil line failed, air leak from front seal, Carb issue, ring turned. Whatever it was you'll need to figure out as you disassemble.
Depending on what you find you'll also need to flush the crank out to get any metal debris out.

Post pics and we can work from them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
I know nothing of "fullbore".
If you had 110 across all 3 cyl's you'd be in pretty good shape. Number 1 being 0, you have pretty extensive damage. You'll need to determine what happened that caused that cyl to fail as you disassemble so you don't relive it again. Either an oil line failed, air leak from front seal, Carb issue, ring turned. Whatever it was you'll need to figure out as you disassemble.
Depending on what you find you'll also need to flush the crank out to get any metal debris out.

Post pics and we can work from them.
Thanks
i opened it up today. The piston have a hole... So, a complete rebuild? or just simply order a sbt engine?
Btw, one screw broke on the top...
Would it be just simple i order a replacement engine from sbt?
18673
IMG_20200514_171919.jpg
18674
18675
IMG_20200514_171919.jpg
IMG_20200514_174212.jpg
IMG_20200514_171850.jpg
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
here is a photo of the point where exhaust pipe. I see a lot of salt i think? is it normal to find a lot salt at this point?
18677
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
I know nothing of "fullbore".
If you had 110 across all 3 cyl's you'd be in pretty good shape. Number 1 being 0, you have pretty extensive damage. You'll need to determine what happened that caused that cyl to fail as you disassemble so you don't relive it again. Either an oil line failed, air leak from front seal, Carb issue, ring turned. Whatever it was you'll need to figure out as you disassemble.
Depending on what you find you'll also need to flush the crank out to get any metal debris out.

Post pics and we can work from them.
as well, for the replace of fuel line and oil line, what size of hose i need? and for the vacuum line( i guess, from carb to the top) or other hose i can replace with autozone hose or i need to order the same one from yamaha?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
I know nothing of "fullbore".
If you had 110 across all 3 cyl's you'd be in pretty good shape. Number 1 being 0, you have pretty extensive damage. You'll need to determine what happened that caused that cyl to fail as you disassemble so you don't relive it again. Either an oil line failed, air leak from front seal, Carb issue, ring turned. Whatever it was you'll need to figure out as you disassemble.
Depending on what you find you'll also need to flush the crank out to get any metal debris out.

Post pics and we can work from them.
So basically, i am thinking of 3 route.
1. The most simple but most expensive, buy a sbt engine which also comes with great warranty.
2. Send the top to someone who can rebuild it and send them back to me. medium price but i need to figure out how to put the ring and pistion in to the cylinder.
3. Just get a simple top end kit, ignore the bore and sleeve just install them and hope for the best. Cheapest...

By opening up this motor, i think everything is original, and really dirty I dont even think in the entire life of this ski had ever been opened before.. Salt everywhere.
However even inthe damaged cylinder, the crankcase looks clean.. Idont know where are the rest of the piston go, maybe fly away already?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,334 Posts
That's not really salt. It's corrosion from salt water. Salt water eats aluminum. It looks like it's either not been flushed or poorly flushed.

I would not recommend an SBT motor. Very poor quality and reviews.
That cyl got very hot to melt away the Piston that way. You'll need to find why or it will do it again.

Most fuel lines are 1/4". Oil lines to carb are 1/8" from tank to pump 3/8" or 5/16"
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
That's not really salt. It's corrosion from salt water. Salt water eats aluminum. It looks like it's either not been flushed or poorly flushed.

I would not recommend an SBT motor. Very poor quality and reviews.
That cyl got very hot to melt away the Piston that way. You'll need to find why or it will do it again.

Most fuel lines are 1/4". Oil lines to carb are 1/8" from tank to pump 3/8" or 5/16"
Thanks!
I decided to send it to 5 star for a full rebuild. Since i just contact the previous owner that he never had a rebuild on either carb/engine, i think its a good time to give it a fresh breath. So, other than the fuel line and oil line, I was trying to figure out what exactly cause the damage.
Someone mentioned about water in the gas, or high-ethnol gas? Could cause the seem problem? Be honest by just looking inside the carb, that was the most clean thing in the world. and all the reed is function properly no crack no anything. The oil hose all hook up tightly together.
Or maybe incorrect 2 stroke I used? Do those motor need some special oil? I just used rando brand 2 stroke oil I found in walmart could that be a problem? Or I just ride it too hard? I think almost full throttle it for couple minutes.

There was one thing caught my attension, that last year, there was once when I was ridding slowly in the marina, there was like pwe~pwe~pwe sound coming down the seat, like some valve is releasing air or something. After that the engine was hard to start for a little bit but then it be ok.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
41 Posts
Hi Dave! thanks again for all the help you've given me with my xl1200!!

You made a good decision doing a complete rebuild. Looks like you have a lot to do outside of just the motor. Make sure you use quality fuel line. I didn't like the quality of line at Autozone. I ended up finding a roll of 1/4" fuel line on Amazon. Made by Continental and made in USA. You don't want some cheap hose breaking down and contaminating the system. I was surprised the original Yamaha fuel line was still in good shape on my 2000 xl1200 Ltd. and 2001 xl800. It's very high quality line. Just clean it up and check for cracks and dry rot. Most important rebuild the carbs with Mikuni kits. Also replace the needle and seats which are not included in the kits. Check pop off and do a pressure test on all three before installing. I've learned so much about these skis in the past 6 months. Rebuilt carbs on both of my skis with a endless list of other items. Check the fuel system and that it holds pressure. It's common for the tank check valve and cap seal to go bad. I've gone through every orifice of each machine. Get a factory service manual. Do all the required maintenance while you're waiting for the motor. Good Luck!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
Hi Dave! thanks again for all the help you've given me with my xl1200!!

You made a good decision doing a complete rebuild. Looks like you have a lot to do outside of just the motor. Make sure you use quality fuel line. I didn't like the quality of line at Autozone. I ended up finding a roll of 1/4" fuel line on Amazon. Made by Continental and made in USA. You don't want some cheap hose breaking down and contaminating the system. I was surprised the original Yamaha fuel line was still in good shape on my 2000 xl1200 Ltd. and 2001 xl800. It's very high quality line. Just clean it up and check for cracks and dry rot. Most important rebuild the carbs with Mikuni kits. Also replace the needle and seats which are not included in the kits. Check pop off and do a pressure test on all three before installing. I've learned so much about these skis in the past 6 months. Rebuilt carbs on both of my skis with a endless list of other items. Check the fuel system and that it holds pressure. It's common for the tank check valve and cap seal to go bad. I've gone through every orifice of each machine. Get a factory service manual. Do all the required maintenance while you're waiting for the motor. Good Luck!!
Thanks for your replay.
I was trying to find a good way to replace the original zip tie on the ski. You have any suggestion? Like keep using zip ties or there are some metal clamps, especially for the oil line. And, I already drain almost any fuel from the tank, but I had a really hard time to reach the fuel hose clamp (to pump the fuel in), to remove the tank. I think I will stop here from cleaning the fuel tank inside out, because from the fuel which been sitting inthe ski for almost a year, it is still crystal clear. And im gonna replace all oil line since they are all kinda stiff. But the fuel line im just gonna replace from the filter to the carb part. Cause the original line feels still soft and no crack no anything, replace them may get things worse i believe.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
41 Posts
Thanks for your replay.
I was trying to find a good way to replace the original zip tie on the ski. You have any suggestion? Like keep using zip ties or there are some metal clamps, especially for the oil line. And, I already drain almost any fuel from the tank, but I had a really hard time to reach the fuel hose clamp (to pump the fuel in), to remove the tank. I think I will stop here from cleaning the fuel tank inside out, because from the fuel which been sitting inthe ski for almost a year, it is still crystal clear. And im gonna replace all oil line since they are all kinda stiff. But the fuel line im just gonna replace from the filter to the carb part. Cause the original line feels still soft and no crack no anything, replace them may get things worse i believe.
I used zip ties for everything including the oil lines. Used double straps on those. Use polypropylene line for the oil system. Slide them on without any residue. Clean the connections. They slide in tighter. I tried to pull it off and couldn’t. Hose management is important and leave slack use the plastic protective covers over the hoses. That allows a little hose movement. You just want to hold in place and not have tension on the connections. I got the ties from zip ties.com get small and large. I’ll upload some photos that may help
 
1 - 20 of 46 Posts
Top