'99 GTX RFI Starting Problem
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This forum is fairly new and doesn't have a huge amount of info to sift thru yet. Can you explain what the problem is and possibly someone here can point you in the right direction. Also consider buying the maintenance manual for your boat.
There are three main areas to consider when troubleshooting - mechanical (condition of the pistons, rings, cylinders, crank, etc), electrical (battery, coils, spark plugs, MPEM, various sensors, starter, stator, votage/regulator/rectifier) and fuel (condition of injectors, quality of gasoline, fuel pump output and fuel filter condition).
You mentioned it is a starting problem. Does it take a long time to start? Is it slow to crank over?
There are three main areas to consider when troubleshooting - mechanical (condition of the pistons, rings, cylinders, crank, etc), electrical (battery, coils, spark plugs, MPEM, various sensors, starter, stator, votage/regulator/rectifier) and fuel (condition of injectors, quality of gasoline, fuel pump output and fuel filter condition).
You mentioned it is a starting problem. Does it take a long time to start? Is it slow to crank over?
Thanks for your response.
The starting problem began last season. The unit doesn't get much use as my two sons are now 19 and 20 and don't spend much time at our weekend cabin. Last season the unit would start but run rough. After some encouragement on the throttle, it would seem to clear itself and run pretty well but reoccur intermittently. The symptoms seemed to me like water in the fuel which would be understandable with the unit sitting on a lift most of the time, exposed to condensation in the tank. Our season ended early when a massive oil spill closed the lake in early August of 2005.
In the fall, I winterized the unit and siphoned out all gas. This spring I changed the plugs, charged the battery and put in new gas. I also added a fuel/water filter (available from Overton's) and "water getter" to help pass any residual water.
The unit tried to start and finally did run briefly. However, I eventually ran the battery down trying to restart it. After recharging the battery, I tried again to start it. It wouldn't start and eventually I removed the fuel/water filter, reconnected the fuel line directly and tried again. Still no start so I cranked it a few times to run some fuel into a clean container to determine if there was water in the fuel. Pure fuel came out.
I'm also wondering if there is a problem withe the key. When I attach the lanyard it doesn't always turn on the instruments and often stays on only briefly. Even with the battery charged it often engages the solenoid but won't turn the engine.
My observation is that I have two and maybe three problems:
1. the key is not connecting properly,
2. the battery does not seem to hold a charge very well,
3. there is something wrong with the ignition circuit.
I've ruled out water in the fuel.
I would be interested in buying the service manuals if I could get them at a reasonable price. Can you advise me where to get them? However, if service requires specialized training or tools, manuals are useless to me. Can some give me a quick checklist of thing to investigate or regular service items I can look at as a starting point?
Both of the dealers in my area are booked for service appointments until late September. One of them charges $95 per hour for service time (this is rediculous) and won't book an appointment unless you have purchased equipment from them (they also sell John Deere equipment). How does Bombardier allow this kind of arrogance to exist in its service network?
Enough for my rant. Thanks in advance for any direction you can give.
The starting problem began last season. The unit doesn't get much use as my two sons are now 19 and 20 and don't spend much time at our weekend cabin. Last season the unit would start but run rough. After some encouragement on the throttle, it would seem to clear itself and run pretty well but reoccur intermittently. The symptoms seemed to me like water in the fuel which would be understandable with the unit sitting on a lift most of the time, exposed to condensation in the tank. Our season ended early when a massive oil spill closed the lake in early August of 2005.
In the fall, I winterized the unit and siphoned out all gas. This spring I changed the plugs, charged the battery and put in new gas. I also added a fuel/water filter (available from Overton's) and "water getter" to help pass any residual water.
The unit tried to start and finally did run briefly. However, I eventually ran the battery down trying to restart it. After recharging the battery, I tried again to start it. It wouldn't start and eventually I removed the fuel/water filter, reconnected the fuel line directly and tried again. Still no start so I cranked it a few times to run some fuel into a clean container to determine if there was water in the fuel. Pure fuel came out.
I'm also wondering if there is a problem withe the key. When I attach the lanyard it doesn't always turn on the instruments and often stays on only briefly. Even with the battery charged it often engages the solenoid but won't turn the engine.
My observation is that I have two and maybe three problems:
1. the key is not connecting properly,
2. the battery does not seem to hold a charge very well,
3. there is something wrong with the ignition circuit.
I've ruled out water in the fuel.
I would be interested in buying the service manuals if I could get them at a reasonable price. Can you advise me where to get them? However, if service requires specialized training or tools, manuals are useless to me. Can some give me a quick checklist of thing to investigate or regular service items I can look at as a starting point?
Both of the dealers in my area are booked for service appointments until late September. One of them charges $95 per hour for service time (this is rediculous) and won't book an appointment unless you have purchased equipment from them (they also sell John Deere equipment). How does Bombardier allow this kind of arrogance to exist in its service network?
Enough for my rant. Thanks in advance for any direction you can give.
Do you have access to a multimeter and a compression tester?
Charge your battery and reconnect it to your boat, attach the multimeter to the battery it should read at least 12.5 VDC (with a fresh charge).
While watching the multimeter crank the engine and see what the voltage drops to. The SeaDoo computer actually monitors the voltage and if it drops too low while cranking cuts off voltage to the ignition system so that the engine can still crank over.
If the voltage drops below 9.5VDC either the battery can not hold the load or the starter brushes are worn and requires too much energy to crank over.
If this happens most automotive stores or Seadoo dealers can due a load test on your freshly charged battery and let you know if it can handle the load or needs to be replaced.
If the voltage is good while cranking the next step is a compression test. Remove the sprk plug caps from the spark plugs and place them on the grounding tabs. Remove the spark plugs (13/16 socket). Crank the motor over a couple of times to clear the cylinders. Install compression tester, crank until pressure readings don't go any higher, then do the other cylinder.
Let me know what you find out.
I wouldn't be surprised if you just need a new battery.
Oh and the part about the dealer only wanting to service units sold by them, it's not that unusual and is a rule normally set by the owner not the service manager.
Charge your battery and reconnect it to your boat, attach the multimeter to the battery it should read at least 12.5 VDC (with a fresh charge).
While watching the multimeter crank the engine and see what the voltage drops to. The SeaDoo computer actually monitors the voltage and if it drops too low while cranking cuts off voltage to the ignition system so that the engine can still crank over.
If the voltage drops below 9.5VDC either the battery can not hold the load or the starter brushes are worn and requires too much energy to crank over.
If this happens most automotive stores or Seadoo dealers can due a load test on your freshly charged battery and let you know if it can handle the load or needs to be replaced.
If the voltage is good while cranking the next step is a compression test. Remove the sprk plug caps from the spark plugs and place them on the grounding tabs. Remove the spark plugs (13/16 socket). Crank the motor over a couple of times to clear the cylinders. Install compression tester, crank until pressure readings don't go any higher, then do the other cylinder.
Let me know what you find out.
I wouldn't be surprised if you just need a new battery.
Oh and the part about the dealer only wanting to service units sold by them, it's not that unusual and is a rule normally set by the owner not the service manager.
Okay, I checked the battery and its putting out over 12.5 volts. Tried to start it and it fired up and started to run. Shut it down and connected a hose so as not to overheat it.
Started it again and it would only run for 30 seconds maximum. It would rev but quickly stalled.
Pulled the plugs and they are wet so I believe it is flooding.
Opened fuse box and inside is bone dry with no corrosion. Opend the RAVE valves and all diaphrams are perfect and everything is aligned properly.
Suggestions?
Started it again and it would only run for 30 seconds maximum. It would rev but quickly stalled.
Pulled the plugs and they are wet so I believe it is flooding.
Opened fuse box and inside is bone dry with no corrosion. Opend the RAVE valves and all diaphrams are perfect and everything is aligned properly.
Suggestions?
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starting
sound like time to rebuild the carbsspinnaker said:
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Yep it's fuel injected. That makes it more difficult...
You really need a manual to check and see what specifications you should have in each section. I've linked to the Troubleshooting section of the manual that deals with an engine that won't start.
Basically you need to verify that you have consistent spark and good compression. If those are good then it's pretty much narrowed down to the fuel system. In the fuel system it could be several things causing the problem, the most likely are either the fuel pressure or the injectors. You might need to check the injector flow, since this sat so long the injectors may be clogged.
http://www.sea-doo.net/Specifications/787-RFI-TROUBLESHOOTING-CHART.pdf
You really need a manual to check and see what specifications you should have in each section. I've linked to the Troubleshooting section of the manual that deals with an engine that won't start.
Basically you need to verify that you have consistent spark and good compression. If those are good then it's pretty much narrowed down to the fuel system. In the fuel system it could be several things causing the problem, the most likely are either the fuel pressure or the injectors. You might need to check the injector flow, since this sat so long the injectors may be clogged.
http://www.sea-doo.net/Specifications/787-RFI-TROUBLESHOOTING-CHART.pdf
Doug did you ever get to performing a compression check on the motor?
I went to my local dealer today and read up on your boat. Apparently with the RFI engines if they start and run for only 30 seconds there is the possibility that the tach wire ( a gray wire) is shorted to ground unfortunately the manual they had on hand did not have the wiring diagram with it so I can't tell you what wire or wires to check. The manual specifically identified this as a possibility as well as the tach or gage cluster being bad.
I was thinking that the knight may be correct to the fuel system problem but if your plugs are wet it should at least idle. There is an inline connection point near the fuel rail but it may require a specific SeaDoo part to interface to perform the fuel pressure test. Your watercraft also has a throttle position sensor that may need to be reset but that requires the SeaDoo interface as well.
Sorry I couldn't be of more assistance.
I went to my local dealer today and read up on your boat. Apparently with the RFI engines if they start and run for only 30 seconds there is the possibility that the tach wire ( a gray wire) is shorted to ground unfortunately the manual they had on hand did not have the wiring diagram with it so I can't tell you what wire or wires to check. The manual specifically identified this as a possibility as well as the tach or gage cluster being bad.
I was thinking that the knight may be correct to the fuel system problem but if your plugs are wet it should at least idle. There is an inline connection point near the fuel rail but it may require a specific SeaDoo part to interface to perform the fuel pressure test. Your watercraft also has a throttle position sensor that may need to be reset but that requires the SeaDoo interface as well.
Sorry I couldn't be of more assistance.
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