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I just registered with this forum and want to say hello to all. I have a lot of experience fixing cars, diagnostics, rebuilding, painted cars, worked on boats own one but HAVE NEVER OWNED OR WORKED ON A 2STROKE PERIOD. Need help, better to ask rather than waste time guessing. Have the service manuals for both 2 strokers
That said I bought 2 different Yamaha jet skis the 2000 XL1200 3 seats and the 2000 GP1200R 2 seats. Both have been sitting for awhile, so I did compression on them with a not so new and cheap tester so I will have to redo it with a better one. My tester is for automotive compression and I saw something online that said because the hose of the automotive ones is a little longer, it might read below accuracy on a 2 stroke so you can add some value to it after the reading(?!). Not in car engines you don't
- Anyhow the compression on all was 90+, only one had reading of 100. That is low I know as I have read needs to be at 115-125 for a healthy engine. When the needle gets to the 90 it quickly jerks back and forth and doesn't stay still. Kind of like when you use a vacuum tester to find leaky valves or a vacuum leak in a car. Needle is not steady. It might be the tester itself.
- So I don't want to rebuild the upper end right away if possible, I can will a USB camera through the spark plug hole and see what surprises there are
- I do want to look at the carbs maybe adjust clean or rebuild
- fix the urgent issues like the oil hoses that could brake and add adapters that prevent it got to find which
- want to know about gas and oil mixing(mine have the gas and oil separate so how do I do that, can it be premixed for a better combination where the oil mixes properly, so it doesn't build up somewhere, or is pouring them separately good, do I need to siphon the old oil out also?
- The handle bar on the XL1200 is stuck to the right side. Found the cable that goes all the way to the back from underneath the steering column I will try to spray something(blaster spay) or better off change it, if I figure out how I know how to remove the back and probably the cable underneath, but in between it goes through some areas in the battery compartment and under the motor
- The XL1200 has a cat sticker and I want to replace it with a D-plate and chip if needed, because when I started the engine there is a weird rattle in that general area, could be something else of course, also it is over ten years old actually 18. The cat might already be out, don't know yet.
- I already suctioned the gas out of the GP1200R(not the oil yet) will do the XL1200 next(can the old gas be reused for anything I have 5 gallons
- when I started the GP1200R it actually sounded better but when I accelerate white smoke comes out of the exhaust will post dropbox link to video of it, looked online and a lot of the same models do the same don't know if the same amount
- The XL1200 is not showing the same smoke just the regular blueish greyish smoke(not too much either) from the burned exhaust mixture of oil and gas.
- I bought spark plugs for both, NGK (7986) BR8ES-11 I hope they're ok for both because the XL1200 had NGL R plugs nevermind the R is on the new plugs also
I think I listed most of my concerns, sorry for the lengthy text but want to cover my bases and noticed that you guys are really great at helping. Great forum here. Thanks in advance to all.
 

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Those numbers are way low for any ski. 120 is a good avg., but will run ok on 110. Anything below that, and it's time for at least a top end. if the numbers are all pretty consistent, chances are the cyl's are in good shape. Get a good gauge and retest. Sounds like the schrader valve is having issues. Be sure you only have one plug out at a time, and make sure you have the plug wires grounded somewhere. If they've been sitting, a carb rebuild is in order. I believe they are they sbnI carbs. Dave will correct me if I'm wrong. lol If you pull the mixture screws, document exactly how many turns from seat each one is for each carb, and don't split the rack if you don't have to.
Yes replace the oil lines and bleed the system. It couldn't hurt to remove the old oil. Just leave the injection system. They are very reliable. You could mix about 1.5oz's per 5 gallons for your first ride just for safety, but after that, straight fuel. Smoke from a 2 stroke is normal, especially when cold.
1 crucial thing to remember, and don't do it wrong. When you run them on the hose, START THE SKI FIRST, AND SHUT THE SKI OFF LAST. turning the water on and off is always, always the middle process (start ski, turn water on, turn water off, couple of quick light revs, turn ski off). Always in that order.
The other thing you need to remember for any 2 stroke that's been sitting is that the crank seals can get old and hard. When this happens, they leak air and can cause a lean condition. The only way to check them is by blocking off the intake, exhaust, and all other excess ports, and applying 6-8 psi of pressure to the crank case. It should hold it for about 15 min. A 1 or 2 psi loss is ok.
Try disconnecting the steering cable at the nozzle and make sure the nozzle is not frozen. If not, just get a new cable. Don't try to save that one.

Alright Dave, what am I missing ?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks for the reply rodsatheart. Give me a second to take it all in. Taking a breathnow.
- So the Schrader valve on both of these is a problem correct, that's the fuel rail valve? Do I need to change them or or do they just get bled?
- For the stuck steering the nozzle is the end not under the dash? The one that gets turned left and right ? So on these when you mix the 5 gallons one time, then the straight gas, you pour gas in the tank is there any measure indicator for the oil in the other oil tank?
- As far as the oil lines are these bought anywhere any brand, and do they require any specific kits to make them safer? I will look in the manual for reference
- I see what you're saying on the carbs, is there a specific kit to get for them and do you know of a step by step instructional video on it? the start up with the water hose is as you said, start engine start water stop water 10-15 sec stop engine, but I still see water dripping, would raising the trailer's front end help with that?
- I know the smoke is normal but the XL is not giving up any of the white smoke, only the GP1200R is
- now on the crank seals procedure any advice on how to block the intake, exhaust and other ports, I assume there is some instructional video out there? I do have the compressed air available at my house. And upon finding a leak is it a bitch to do? take out whole engine type deal?
- the On Off Res knob is also stuck have to use vise grips to turn
Thanks again and breathing out. How many posts do I need before posting pictures?
 

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I've got an extra D-plate & chip that I would let you have for a good deal. Brand new in the bag. Bought it for the 2001 XLT I am rebuilding and realized that the cat/con had already been replaced with the plate.

Let me kno if you are interested.

Those should be fun machines when you get them going. Good to see neglected machines being reborn. I am doing the same by rebuilding mine.

Zardoz
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I will first I have to see if mine has the cat. Can you tell me where you buy your oil lines and metal clamps? for both the XL1200 and the GP1200R
 

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I haven't bought them yet. I kno 1/8 inch oil lines are available thru SBT. Just ask Dave or Rods, and they can tell you. I would/will probably do the same.

You can usually tell if there is still a cat/con in the machine as there is a wire sticking out of the exhaust to the rear of the engine compartment. If the wire is cut or dangling, the cat/con is probably not there any longer. If the wire from the exhaust is still plugged in, then the cat/con is probably still there. After removing the cat/con the wire is usually cut and the chip supplied with the D-plate is inserted into the spot where the long wire was plugged in.

Let me know if you are interested.

Zardoz
 

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sorry I'm late guy's. working nights sucks.(6pm to 7am) was up 28 hrs by the time I got home this AM.
+1 to what Rods stated but I will add that both of these motors have power valves. and will require a bit of TLC for them as well. while its apart for the oil lines and carb build, you'll want to pull the covers and inspect the valves, and at the very least install wave eater clips. Myself I prefer the SBT linkage replacement, its a more permanent fix and a bit more work to install though.
keep the oil systems if there intact. if they are still there. they are very reliable if maintained. IE replacing hoses every few years. with the system in tact you can run several tanks of fuel before needing more oil if you premix you have to carry oil every time you go out encase you need to refill. not to mention very messy. not to mention the oil pump is variable at idle your running 200/1 and wot 50/1 so you actually save on oil in the long run.

the oil line (1/8") can also be purchased at SBT. or at any small engine (lawn mower) repair shop. as far as the line clamps go you'll have to look them up on line they come in package kits under Oetiker clamps. honestly though the wire ties work very well if you have the proper tools. go to your local electrical supply house or lowe's, home depot, and get a wire tie gun. its used to put on wire ties. it's the only way to use wire ties as a clamp. it pulls them down very tight and clips them off clean. mine will literally pull a wire tie in half. the higher end models have better tension control. Most importantly ALWAYS use the black wire ties, they hold up best to heat and sun.

the schrader valve Rods is referring to I believe is the one in the hose for your compression tester.

also for your carbs there are a few upgrades you may want to do as you rebuild them. you can find links to them under Zardoz's post on his engine build. I wouldn't do the jetting upgrade unless you plan to remove factory air box and install F/A's. but definitely do the fuel balance. the way I do mine is one carb at a time. and tag it for what cyl 1,2,3 they are different. and as Rods stated write down how many turns in to seat each mixture screw. when you put them back on the mount plate do not tighten them till all the linkage is connected and make sure all your butter flies close all the way. the linkage is preset so you have to let the carbs settle so that they all close. if you know what I mean...

a compression gauge is a compression gauge. no 2 stroke or 4 stoke. don't bother with harbor freight there useless. very poor gauge no where near accurate.
I wouldn't get overly concerned on compression just yet, you say they've set for a while and may have some light surface rust on the cyl wall that will effect your outcome. i'd add a teaspoon of oil to each cyl, crank them over put plugs back, get them running on the hose for a few minutes(10/15 min) let them cool and do this 3 to 4 times and then test.
when they set the bores get very dry and dont seal well
 

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Schrader on comp gauge. The additional oil is just for one tank. Just mix that amount in a 1 gallon can, add to the tank, and add 4 more gallons of fuel. It should bring the total ratio to around 32:1 for 5 gallons (give or take). This is just for some extra short time protection and should not be done for eveytank of fuel. Just keep the oil tank fuel. Yes the nozzle is at the back.
I use tygon fuel line for oil injection line.
If using a compressor to check seals, you must be very careful. to much pressure will blow them out. Use rubber freeze plugs for everything you can. Just easier.
If seals are leaking, yes engine comes out, crank cases are split, fly wheel, and drive coupling come off. Ya, it's a bitch to do on a Yamaha, but Dave can walk you through the r&r. The actual seal replacement is a breeze. Just have to use three bond 1211 or equivalent between the case halves.
Get a replacement valve off ebay. Prob just a few bucks. While you have it out, might as well replace all the fuel lines with some urethane fuel line. Can get it from sbt and most pwc stores. Blue in color.
Use this site to reference parts.

https://www.partzilla.com/catalog/yamaha/waverunner
 

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I want to clear something up here real quick. What Rods is saying is for your first tank of fuel mix 5 gal at 32/1. Helps get motor well lubed after setting. The oil tank only gets oil in it. No need to measure it just fill it when needed.
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
Thanks for the Partzilla for reference now I can speak legibly
So I got the steering cable unstuck, sprayed anti corrosion spray on both sides , unhooked the bolt at the Jet pump end and it came loose now it's back to normal. I unstuck the knob that turns to ON OFF and Res, took it apart and sprayed same thing and it's able to turn by hand. In the back I had a small incident with a broken bolt on the trim ring the top one that bolts the deflector to the trim, so I had to drill it out and remove the thin layer of what was left with the tap. Luckily I had the right tap. Back on now. Another thing I found were 2 big rocks inside the propeller, that's the pop noise that I heard when I turned the XL1200. It took a bit of magic to remove, had to device a hook with a wire hanger to pull them out, could not reach by hand or by long nose pliers. So I am slowly moving on to the next part. Want to put some oil on the pistons like rods mentioned, should I spray the anti corrosion stuff or the Yamaha 2w oil for mixing?
 

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No anti corrosion spray. just a teaspoon or so of 2 stroke oil and roll it over a bit
For parts you can also use "Babbittsonline"
 

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The wire is the wire from the cat/con that tells whether the exhaust temperature is OK. Since it is not hooked up and it is hanging, it probably means that the cat/con has been replaced and a "chip" has been plugged into where the wire plugs into so that the brains of the pwc doesn't think that it is overheating. The D-plate and chip are usually sold together.

I looked in the service manual but couldn't find the page that showed where the wire plugs into.

You ought to pick up a service manual. With their exploded views and charts of specifications it is a must for rebuilding.

Here is a link to the service manual: http://www.autocd.ru/autocd/WV/XLT1200_F0V-28197-2D-C1.PDF

Zardoz
 

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Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
Rundown on the pictures

1st picture The GP1200R has a beeping and flashing warning light when I start it. Could it be that I emptied the gas tank and the warning light comes on?

2nd picture the hanging temp sensor wire is that the one that you take out when you replace the cat with the D-plate, both have it disconnected
3rd shows the whitish smoke from the GP1200R, the XL1200 has a more blueish,greyish smoke but all the GP12Rs on YouTube show a lot of smoke also, pretty similar also the GP1200R sound louder and meaner the XL1200 amost like the XL has a muffler and the other doesn't

4th and 5th show the 2 rocks that I had inside the propeller or whatever that is by the jet pump

Hey Zardoz thanks for the link on the manual I already bought it for both skis, $4.99 for the XL1200 and $8.99 for the GP1200R on EBay didn't know it was available for free and in German and French too

Can you tell me which lines are good for the oil though I think the guy before me might have changed things.

Spark plugs- I bought these but it takes 3 weeks to get

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000WNTDIA/ref=sxbs_sxwds-stvpv2_3?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_p=3534659722&pd_rd_wg=CXMeL&pf_rd_r=WKZGP4TD67M8DCP3KSTZ&pf_rd_s=desktop-sx-bottom-slot&pf_rd_t=301&pd_rd_i=B000WNTDIA&pd_rd_w=HM3JY&pf_rd_i=wave+eater+clips&pd_rd_r=6a4c25a0-9039-49cb-90cb-28c20f3f6f99&ie=UTF8&qid=1523590069&sr=3

can I get the regular ones?

https://www.amazon.com/NGK-Standard-Nickel-0-044in-BR8ES-11/dp/B071NB7DJ8/ref=sr_1_6?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1523590340&sr=1-6&keywords=NGK+(7986)+BR8ES-11

fuel line https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias=automotive&field-keywords=Primer+Line+25+1/+8+Clear&rh=n:15684181,k:Primer+Line+25+1/+8+Clear
Amazon lines https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias=automotive&field-keywords=Primer+Line+25+1/+8+Clear&rh=n:15684181,k:Primer+Line+25+1/+8+Clear
Ebay line https://www.ebay.com/itm/Fuel-Line-Primer-Line-SPI-Clear-1-8-25-UP-07004-/281932261274
oil or multipurpose hose?? https://www.shopsbt.com/jetski/primer-line-25-ft-clear-1-8.html
 

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You sure it's smoke and not steam ? Smoke will blow away, steam will dissipate, usually fairly quickly. Any of those lines will work for the oil injection, but I doubt you'll need 25' of it. Prob. more like 12' for both ski's. I believe Home depot and Lowes both sell Tygon fuel line by the foot. Make sure you do one line at a time. Can't remember if Yamaha has specific ports off the pump like Kawai does on their triples. The id on the line should be around 3/32. Take a piece with you.
Just reach down and see how pliable the lines are. If they are, you should be good for this season. Should be part of a preseason check every year. Just amke sure they are still secure.
You need to inspect the impellers very carefully. Rocks like that tell me the ski's were abused. I believe there is a filter under a small cover on the side of the jet pump on each ski. You should prob at least back flush it.
 

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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
Went to Home Depot and no Tygon, will probably order it. and the oil is a lot thinner than the fuel hoses Are zip ties tightened with a gun sufficiently strong or do I need the metal clamps?

As far as the filter I saw a water inlet filter see picture#1 item #15 and a bilge strainer, in the book got to locate it in the jet ski

OK took out the exhaust and there is a D-plate already

Pic #3 tank had water inside it smelled like has is that normal

Picture #4 the middle oil line came off pretty easy, the other 2 also came off but a bit harder
Picture 5 the carburetor filter box has only a metal mesh looking grill there are no filters
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
1- The exhaust joint one from the picture has a lot of white build up, underneath the smaller joint 2 is better.

2- So the next step is to take out the carb assembly and rebuild it. Do I need to buy a new needle and needle seat? I got to find the best kit for this so help

3- I am also thinking that since I am here do I open the head and rebuild the upper end? For that I have to see how the pistons and cyl or sleeve cyl look, don't know if I need to have them honed or resurfaced. I think based on that I will order the rings. What do you guys think
 

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Went to Home Depot and no Tygon, will probably order it. and the oil is a lot thinner than the fuel hoses Are zip ties tightened with a gun sufficiently strong or do I need the metal clamps?

As far as the filter I saw a water inlet filter see picture#1 item #15 and a bilge strainer, in the book got to locate it in the jet ski

OK took out the exhaust and there is a D-plate already

Pic #3 tank had water inside it smelled like has is that normal

Picture #4 the middle oil line came off pretty easy, the other 2 also came off but a bit harder
Picture 5 the carburetor filter box has only a metal mesh looking grill there are no filters
wire ties:
wire ties are fine. its all I use. just make sure to use the black ones and install them with a gun. and a lot less expensive than the clamps.
filter:
item 15 pic 1 is your cooling water inlet screen/filter. remove cover #17 and make sure the inside is clean and clear.
pic3:
is your water box and will have water in it that normal. some cooling water goes out through the exhaust to cool the system.
pic 4: the green fuel lines dont replace them unless you have to. they are a very high quality rubber and last a long time. only replace if it is hard and britle. just carefully cut wire ties and redo them. do replace oil lines and leave plenty of slack in them for shrinkage. this will help keep them from pulling off.
pic 5: the screen in the airbox is all there is. not really a filter more for flame arresting.
 

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1- The exhaust joint one from the picture has a lot of white build up, underneath the smaller joint 2 is better.

2- So the next step is to take out the carb assembly and rebuild it. Do I need to buy a new needle and needle seat? I got to find the best kit for this so help

3- I am also thinking that since I am here do I open the head and rebuild the upper end? For that I have to see how the pistons and cyl or sleeve cyl look, don't know if I need to have them honed or resurfaced. I think based on that I will order the rings. What do you guys think
the white is just corrosion it can be cleaned with dish soap and coarse steel-wool.

Answer 2: the needle and seat doesn't come with the carb kit so yes order them when you order your kit. some will tell you to use only mikuni kits and not the ones from sbt. but ive used both with no issue and the sbt kits are much cheaper. 1.2mm seats come in the carb. if your doing the upgrades on them use 1.5mm seats

answer 3: if your compression numbers where around 90 and your confident thats what they are, then yes it wouldn't be a bad idea. if they are sleeved then yes hone them. if there still original nikasil coating then just replace piston and rings and top bearings if bores are clean and not scored. ALSO check your power valves while your this deep in. pull the covers and make sure they have either wave eater clips on them or the sbt linkage. these motors are notorious for the pin falling out of the valve and blowing a motor as the valve and pin fall into piston.
if you need help id'ing sleeved vs nikasil jug post a pic of the top of the jug after the head is off and surface is cleaned. the nikasil is a very hard chrome coating they flash directly onto the aluminum wall of the cyl.
 
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