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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I just registered with this forum and want to say hello to all. I have a lot of experience fixing cars, diagnostics, rebuilding, painted cars, worked on boats own one but HAVE NEVER OWNED OR WORKED ON A 2STROKE PERIOD. Need help, better to ask rather than waste time guessing. Have the service manuals for both 2 strokers
That said I bought 2 different Yamaha jet skis the 2000 XL1200 3 seats and the 2000 GP1200R 2 seats. Both have been sitting for awhile, so I did compression on them with a not so new and cheap tester so I will have to redo it with a better one. My tester is for automotive compression and I saw something online that said because the hose of the automotive ones is a little longer, it might read below accuracy on a 2 stroke so you can add some value to it after the reading(?!). Not in car engines you don't
- Anyhow the compression on all was 90+, only one had reading of 100. That is low I know as I have read needs to be at 115-125 for a healthy engine. When the needle gets to the 90 it quickly jerks back and forth and doesn't stay still. Kind of like when you use a vacuum tester to find leaky valves or a vacuum leak in a car. Needle is not steady. It might be the tester itself.
- So I don't want to rebuild the upper end right away if possible, I can will a USB camera through the spark plug hole and see what surprises there are
- I do want to look at the carbs maybe adjust clean or rebuild
- fix the urgent issues like the oil hoses that could brake and add adapters that prevent it got to find which
- want to know about gas and oil mixing(mine have the gas and oil separate so how do I do that, can it be premixed for a better combination where the oil mixes properly, so it doesn't build up somewhere, or is pouring them separately good, do I need to siphon the old oil out also?
- The handle bar on the XL1200 is stuck to the right side. Found the cable that goes all the way to the back from underneath the steering column I will try to spray something(blaster spay) or better off change it, if I figure out how I know how to remove the back and probably the cable underneath, but in between it goes through some areas in the battery compartment and under the motor
- The XL1200 has a cat sticker and I want to replace it with a D-plate and chip if needed, because when I started the engine there is a weird rattle in that general area, could be something else of course, also it is over ten years old actually 18. The cat might already be out, don't know yet.
- I already suctioned the gas out of the GP1200R(not the oil yet) will do the XL1200 next(can the old gas be reused for anything I have 5 gallons
- when I started the GP1200R it actually sounded better but when I accelerate white smoke comes out of the exhaust will post dropbox link to video of it, looked online and a lot of the same models do the same don't know if the same amount
- The XL1200 is not showing the same smoke just the regular blueish greyish smoke(not too much either) from the burned exhaust mixture of oil and gas.
- I bought spark plugs for both, NGK (7986) BR8ES-11 I hope they're ok for both because the XL1200 had NGL R plugs nevermind the R is on the new plugs also
I think I listed most of my concerns, sorry for the lengthy text but want to cover my bases and noticed that you guys are really great at helping. Great forum here. Thanks in advance to all.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks for the reply rodsatheart. Give me a second to take it all in. Taking a breathnow.
- So the Schrader valve on both of these is a problem correct, that's the fuel rail valve? Do I need to change them or or do they just get bled?
- For the stuck steering the nozzle is the end not under the dash? The one that gets turned left and right ? So on these when you mix the 5 gallons one time, then the straight gas, you pour gas in the tank is there any measure indicator for the oil in the other oil tank?
- As far as the oil lines are these bought anywhere any brand, and do they require any specific kits to make them safer? I will look in the manual for reference
- I see what you're saying on the carbs, is there a specific kit to get for them and do you know of a step by step instructional video on it? the start up with the water hose is as you said, start engine start water stop water 10-15 sec stop engine, but I still see water dripping, would raising the trailer's front end help with that?
- I know the smoke is normal but the XL is not giving up any of the white smoke, only the GP1200R is
- now on the crank seals procedure any advice on how to block the intake, exhaust and other ports, I assume there is some instructional video out there? I do have the compressed air available at my house. And upon finding a leak is it a bitch to do? take out whole engine type deal?
- the On Off Res knob is also stuck have to use vise grips to turn
Thanks again and breathing out. How many posts do I need before posting pictures?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I will first I have to see if mine has the cat. Can you tell me where you buy your oil lines and metal clamps? for both the XL1200 and the GP1200R
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
Thanks for the Partzilla for reference now I can speak legibly
So I got the steering cable unstuck, sprayed anti corrosion spray on both sides , unhooked the bolt at the Jet pump end and it came loose now it's back to normal. I unstuck the knob that turns to ON OFF and Res, took it apart and sprayed same thing and it's able to turn by hand. In the back I had a small incident with a broken bolt on the trim ring the top one that bolts the deflector to the trim, so I had to drill it out and remove the thin layer of what was left with the tap. Luckily I had the right tap. Back on now. Another thing I found were 2 big rocks inside the propeller, that's the pop noise that I heard when I turned the XL1200. It took a bit of magic to remove, had to device a hook with a wire hanger to pull them out, could not reach by hand or by long nose pliers. So I am slowly moving on to the next part. Want to put some oil on the pistons like rods mentioned, should I spray the anti corrosion stuff or the Yamaha 2w oil for mixing?
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
Rundown on the pictures

1st picture The GP1200R has a beeping and flashing warning light when I start it. Could it be that I emptied the gas tank and the warning light comes on?

2nd picture the hanging temp sensor wire is that the one that you take out when you replace the cat with the D-plate, both have it disconnected
3rd shows the whitish smoke from the GP1200R, the XL1200 has a more blueish,greyish smoke but all the GP12Rs on YouTube show a lot of smoke also, pretty similar also the GP1200R sound louder and meaner the XL1200 amost like the XL has a muffler and the other doesn't

4th and 5th show the 2 rocks that I had inside the propeller or whatever that is by the jet pump

Hey Zardoz thanks for the link on the manual I already bought it for both skis, $4.99 for the XL1200 and $8.99 for the GP1200R on EBay didn't know it was available for free and in German and French too

Can you tell me which lines are good for the oil though I think the guy before me might have changed things.

Spark plugs- I bought these but it takes 3 weeks to get

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000WNTDI...90cb-28c20f3f6f99&ie=UTF8&qid=1523590069&sr=3

can I get the regular ones?

https://www.amazon.com/NGK-Standard...523590340&sr=1-6&keywords=NGK+(7986)+BR8ES-11

fuel line https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_...ear&rh=n:15684181,k:Primer+Line+25+1/+8+Clear
Amazon lines https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_...ear&rh=n:15684181,k:Primer+Line+25+1/+8+Clear
Ebay line https://www.ebay.com/itm/Fuel-Line-Primer-Line-SPI-Clear-1-8-25-UP-07004-/281932261274
oil or multipurpose hose?? https://www.shopsbt.com/jetski/primer-line-25-ft-clear-1-8.html
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 · (Edited)
Went to Home Depot and no Tygon, will probably order it. and the oil is a lot thinner than the fuel hoses Are zip ties tightened with a gun sufficiently strong or do I need the metal clamps?

As far as the filter I saw a water inlet filter see picture#1 item #15 and a bilge strainer, in the book got to locate it in the jet ski

OK took out the exhaust and there is a D-plate already

Pic #3 tank had water inside it smelled like has is that normal

Picture #4 the middle oil line came off pretty easy, the other 2 also came off but a bit harder
Picture 5 the carburetor filter box has only a metal mesh looking grill there are no filters
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 · (Edited)
1- The exhaust joint one from the picture has a lot of white build up, underneath the smaller joint 2 is better.

2- So the next step is to take out the carb assembly and rebuild it. Do I need to buy a new needle and needle seat? I got to find the best kit for this so help

3- I am also thinking that since I am here do I open the head and rebuild the upper end? For that I have to see how the pistons and cyl or sleeve cyl look, don't know if I need to have them honed or resurfaced. I think based on that I will order the rings. What do you guys think
 

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Discussion Starter · #21 · (Edited)
Mr. Dave you have my eternal gratitude you sir are a gentleman and a scholar.

I just removed the exhaust manifold 8 bolts and it took an hour, the damn bolts were really tight so it was one turn rest one turn breath. But it's out.

So here's the corrosion on the ports. Looks pretty bad.

Tomorrow the head is coming out. I am really enjoying this even though the trailer has a metal railing cover with plywood and some carpet, keep banging my head, so I have to stay bent over and it's still easier than a car engine.

I will look at SBT for prices. The upper end kit $399. I found some kits on EBay for $300. I am going for the rebuild of the top end first then the carb. The oil line is really thin even compared to the fuel green lines. What size are those hoses 1/4 or 1/8?

The carb green hoses are ok a bit hard but maybe ok I can squeeze them but really hard rubber

Dave did you say to cut the old ties from the existing fuel lines and replace them(ties) even though I am not putting new lines?

And last I think you or someone else mentioned the crank seals and now I am really concerned they look like a pain to replace, what say you?
 

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Discussion Starter · #24 · (Edited)
1- So to get to the seals I have to remove the starter and generator and then the flywheel bolt ( that is where the rope trick comes in?) and then I pull out small generator cover or housing in the picture? Then do the bolts for the crank housing? Is there a timing involved with all this that I have to worry about.

Wouldn't it be easier to remove the block and work on it outside at this point. How hard can that be? I'll go check

2- The trick with the rope I assume is done before the head comes off. Here's the diagram of the crank case, point me in the right direction.

CLR calcium lime rust remover from Target? How about hydrochloric acid or muriatic acid used in pool treatment. Since I am dipping at 20:1
 

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Discussion Starter · #30 · (Edited)
Ok the carb is off, the head is off the oil pump is off, and most importantly the whole damn block is out of the hole.

Dropbox link: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/91mr2j2wfur5eez/AACxQfKAeBg8vss6hpta5vU4a?dl=0

My next step is to start cleaning the stuff and TO LEARN A BIT ABOUT TAKING THE CRANK CASE APART, THE TIMING PART.

So Dave can you give me some pointers I want to know at what point do I get to mark the timing so I don't screw up, got to read in the book also. Do I remove the generator casing, remove the pulley bolt and then? Do I have to remove the power valves on the side? And the screws at the bottom of the block?
 

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Discussion Starter · #32 · (Edited)
Don't have a ball hone yet but will get one from Amazon any idea what size is for this one

I will sand the cylinders soon and post pictures
Thank god there's no timing.

You're talking about the crank seals to be Yamaha's right, are the SBT any good, could not locate the Yamaha ones yet

Between the 2 crank case halves is there a gasket or use gasket maker black?

I will buy the power valves gaskets and there are some seals inside too. I will look for the SBT links those go inside or outside the power valves?

Also I took apart the generator how often does it go bad and does it need rebuilding. Same with the starter
 

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Discussion Starter · #34 ·
I can do a diamond hone, used it before. I would feel better to have honed rather than not I think So I want to hone the cyl I usually use WD40 for that always have on cars at least. But in the cyl I noticed that below the piston line there is hollow space so I just gone the area that make contact with the piston rings.

There are 3 seals one on the generator side and 2 on the flange coupling side. I found them Crowley Marine https://cart.crowleymarine.com/ for $50 shipped. The other guys charged $10 more.
93101-34001-00 / 93103-35011-00 / 93101-34002-00

I was thinking of buying the gaskets separately they're not that many that way I can buy them as Yamaha oem and the pistons separate,
question I have, do I really need to buy new pistons? Probably yes I am thinking, just voicing my concerns out loud.
I tried to locate what type pistons kit to buy.

I will ask about the carbs when I get to them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #35 · (Edited)
I can do a diamond hone, used it before. I would feel better to have honed rather than not
So I want to hone the cyl I usually use WD40 for that always have on cars at least. But in the cyl I noticed that below the piston line there is hollow space so I just gone the area that make contact with the piston rings.


There are 3 seals one on the generator side and 2 on the flange coupling side. I found them Crowley Marine https://cart.crowleymarine.com/ for $50 shipped. The other guys charged $10 more.
93101-34001-00 / 93103-35011-00 / 93101-34002-00

I was thinking of buying the gaskets separately they're not that many that way I can buy Yamaha oem and then pistons separately

Dumb question I have, do I really need to buy new pistons, can't I just clean the old ones? Probably yes, I am just voicing my concerns out loud.

You told me where to buy the piston set set earlier trying to locate it,

Here are the pictures of the cylinder as you requested, sanded 400 then 600 first
 

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Discussion Starter · #37 ·
Both skis had 180 hours on.

So I decided to buy the 3.25 240 grit ball hone on Amazon for $28 prime. A lot easier and will use the 2w oil like you said.

Bought some CLR applying in a bucket 8 to 1 mix so 4 gallons 1/2 gallon of CLR also bought some toilet solution it's blue and has some hydrochloric acid in. I am doing half hour at a time and brushing it if any calcium left put it back another half hour.

Am looking at the Wiseko piston kit sets and they say either for 84mm, 84.50mm 85mm bore and so on. The bore on one of mine is 79.80 or 79.90 is below 80mm.So how do I choose the set? And also most sets are for the 98 Yamaha XL1200 they are the same right?
 

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Discussion Starter · #39 · (Edited)

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Discussion Starter · #43 · (Edited)
CLR is doing great actually I only have on cylinder and part of the exhaust manifold in the bucket.

So which do you suggest I get. Most kits don't specify Color like orange they specify the bore size in my case around 79.90 Some also have 79.91, 79.92, 79.93 etc

This is SBT top End

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Yamaha-Top...ash=item5afd75acf2:g:X0EAAOSwiONYLK5Z&vxp=mtr

Or this WSM
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-79-9mm...ash=item4b00b6bd38:g:mCcAAOSwH09ZNsh0&vxp=mtr

So many opinions some say SBT are not that good, some say ProX, OEM and Wiseko(luckily they don't make them for PV so don't have to count them in) froze on them, some or most seem to be OK with WSM for no Mod engines. What exactly does the mod do? Allow you to fly, ride at 70 MPH? Higher RPM? Just want to build a stock reliable jet ski and be able to adjust the carbs just right.
 

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Discussion Starter · #45 · (Edited)
So forget the ProX, on the WSM kit on the pistons how can I tell which size to get since I have the orange pistons originally, and the bore id 79.90 give or take. Do they expand under heat, don't want them to freeze up. Read about how some pistons are cast iron and wiseko get loose because they are forged or something. The WSM are pretty straight install for standard?

OK I just called EWS Motorsports directly and bought this for $300 PayPal there was a $30 discount for buying straight and through EBay.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/272334753106?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649

Now I have to do the valve deal.
On the power valve I have to get all new valve kits that include the valves, should I look to see if they had a valve job already, didn't open them up yet? Shit you dyed checked it is that a required procedure to check valves?
Wow the valve kits are $99X3 just for valves?
 

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Discussion Starter · #47 ·
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/lh2fc5wzs56ctc3/AABl8SlhU2KF2LANW_C4RMXva?dl=0 This is the link to the pics of the parts cleaned up.

Wanted to know can I retouch up the exhaust manifold after I sand it, with some caliper high temp black paint?

Also Can I use Copper Gasket spray for the metal gaskets to take care of the nicks/pitting that can be seen on the sanded metal? I have used it once on a Toyota Camry engine that I did a major repair due to the head bolts breaking out of the block, so I had to buy a $350 kit and rebore add thread inserts for all 10 bolts, factory defect, so at the advice of a machinist I used copper gasket spray for the head gasket, it's been fine for the past 2 years. So can this be done on these 2 stroke engines? They are rated at 550 degrees. I read something about gasket stuff " 1211 on aluminum/aluminum , hylomar on paper gaskets, gray ultra on steel/steel, red ultra on exhaust/ high heat applications" or a good quality waterproof grease to prevent pitting here's the post Heads up on using Copper spray
 
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