[calivette2003]

2005 F-12X stock except Mac-boost chip. Been a great, fast, and basically maintenance free craft for years until 2010.

Last year at the lake it acted up, but after a 10 minute cool down, while riding my 650SX, it went away completely (rode for another hour wide-open throttle no problems, now it's back!

First off: just finished yearly maintenance, new plugs, new filters (oil and air), lubed all fittings, emptied and flushed the fuel tank, just put in 91 octane.

Tested on the trailer with cooling hose attached

Tried disconnecting the boost chip, last year at the lake and now, no difference so that's not it.

Idle is normal 1200 (+-100), at 2000-2500 starts to stumble, does not appear to be the motor (hope to God), i.e. no metallic noise when I used my mechanic's stethoscope. Somewhere in the back compartment there is a clunking noise, Had thought the shaft bearing may be bad allowing the impeller to hit the outer ring when the engine torques or spins up but if so why would it do it and then stop and run fine, that makes no sense.
Other thought is the turbo unit, maybe the waste gate or WGS is bad and it bleeds off all pressure. The unit is well preserved, lubed regularly and the waste gate opens/ closes by hand.

So unsure what the hell it is. Problem is it is beyond me to diagnose. And I can't afford to take it to the local dealer, Fun Bike Center, as they charge $200 just to diagnosis it. I just retired from the Navy and am unemployed so that's not an option till I find work.

So I'm going to take it out to the beach and see if the problem persists (I know it will) but better to try and have to spend 4 hours cleaning then a $600.00 bill I CAN'T AFFORD, I can at least enjoy my 650SX.

Any advice would be helpful.

David

 

[jrinjax]

2005 F-12X with macboost chip.
Been a great, very fast, and basically maintenance free craft for years until 2010.

Last day of the year at the lake it acted up, but after a 10 minute cool down, while riding my 650SX, it went away completely (rode for another hour wide-open throttle no problems, now it's back!

First off: just finished yearly maintenance, new plugs, oil+filters (oil and air), lubed all fittings, emptied and flushed the fuel tank, just put in 91 octane.

Tested on the trailer with cooling hose attached
Tried disconnecting the boost chip, last year at the lake and now, no difference so that's not it.

Idle is normal 1200 (+-100), at 2000-2500 starts to stumble, does not appear to be the motor (hope to God), i.e. no metallic noise when I used my mechanic's stethescope. Somewhere in the back compartment there is a clunking noise, Still think the shaft bearing may be bad allowing the impeller to hit the outer ring when the engine torques or spins up but if so why would it do it and then stop and run fine 9that makes no sense.
Other thought is the turbo unit, maybe the waste gate is bad and it bleeds off all pressure. The unit is well preserved, lubed regurally and the wastegate opens/ closes bu hand.

So unsure what the hell it is. Problem is it is beyond me to diagnos. And I can't afford to take it to the local dealer, Fun Bijke Center as they charge $200 just to diagnosis it. I just retired from the Navy and am unemployed so that's not an option till I find work.

So I'm going to take it out to the beach and see if the problem persists (I know it will) but better to try and have to spend 4 hours cleaning then a $600.00 bill I CAN'T AFFORD, I can at least enjoy my 650SX.

Any advice would be helpful.

David

I would start off with a new set of plugs and remove the waste gate soleniod.
CAREFULLY unbend the tiny tabs that hold it together and open it. Check and see of it shows obvious corrosion inside of it. There is a quick check without disassembly on PWCTODAY.COM.
The rattling is usually just the necessary slack built into the driveshaft spline and goes away once it is in the water and warmed up. Besure to control corrosion in the engine bay or it will kill your Honda, especially in the salt.

 

[angiegood]

Hi David-

It sounds like we have the same issues. I don't have any odd noises. I get all my service done at Motoworld. If you can't figure it out and have to take it in call Brent in the service department. It will run you about $100 to get a diagnosis. I get a pretty good discount with them on parts and labor. If you need to go in there tell Brent you know me and he will extend my discount to you. Hope you find your problem soon

I spent about 900 dollars at FBC on a seadoo boat I have, it turned out to be a $5 dollar sensor but they couldn't figure it out and just kept replacing parts, it was very frustrating.

 

[calivette2003]

I would start off with a new set of plugs and remove the waste gate soleniod.
CAREFULLY unbend the tiny tabs that hold it together and open it. Check and see of it shows obvious corrosion inside of it. There is a quick check without disassembly on PWCTODAY.COM.
The rattling is usually just the necessary slack built into the driveshaft spline and goes away once it is in the water and warmed up. Besure to control corrosion in the engine bay or it will kill your Honda, especially in the salt.

JRINJAX:23714: Thanks found that thread and printed it out. I have new NGK IR plugs already. Will try the quick blowing into the WGS while off and while running and then from there will take it off and disassemble as necessary, seems this is the Achilles’ heel of these Hondas. Appreciate the feedback!
David

Angie, I actually bought my Honda from ECC back in 2006, I just went to FBC becuase it isn't so far for me (50+ miles). I hope you have found the culprit.

Thanks to both.

 

[calivette2003]

Found the WGS for $74 with shipping, will try to fix first but after that I'm ordering.

 

[jrinjax]

Found the WGS for $74 with shipping, will try to fix first but after that I'm ordering.

That is a very good price on the WGS. The salt air is picked up by the turbo's induction and blown into the WGS which bleeds air off of the Waste Gate actuator to build boost pressure.
Some of the salt remains inside the solenoid corroding it. If you fog your engine by spraying fogging oil through a pinpoit straw into the tiny hole [after removing the tiny phillips screw] in the top of the center inlet, it pushes the fogging oil into the WGS. I just periodicly open and clean mine very carefully with CRC 656.

 

[calivette2003]

If you fog your engine by spraying fogging oil through a pinpoit straw into the tiny hole [after removing the tiny phillips screw] in the top of the center inlet, it pushes the fogging oil into the WGS.

Per chance where exactly is that tiny phillips screw in the "center inlet"?

David

 

[jrinjax]

Where the air tube slides on to the center inlet of the turbo's compressor wheel housing, if you look very closely there will be a rusty dot, which is actually a small phillips head screw. Use a jewel's screwdiver to remove it and fog it with engine fogging oil while it is running. It will smoke like a mosquito fogger and shut it off. I bought my fogging oil from Home Depot.

 

[calivette2003]

Where the air tube slides on to the center inlet of the turbo's compressor wheel housing, if you look very closely there will be a rusty dot, which is actually a small phillips head screw. Use a jewel's screwdiver to remove it and fog it with engine fogging oil while it is running. It will smoke like a mosquito fogger and shut it off. I bought my fogging oil from Home Depot.

Thanks, appreciate the info.

David

 

[calivette2003]

Update

Just finished the ski last night.

1. Was not able to take off the small screw in the compressor inlet, not rusted at all but frozen and stripped so I removed the flex boot and fogged the turbo while running (killed the motor).

2. Moved the WG rod easily, lubricated with CRC-656.

3. Removed the WGS, shot some CRC electronics cleaner thru it. I could not blow thru either WGS hose tees. I also used a vacuum hand pump for this test, outer hose tee held 20" vac., inner tee got to 20' vac. but decreased rapidly. I then re-installed WGS, and with motor running was able to blow thru both solenoid hose tees, the outer hose tee held 20" vac. till I reved over 2000rpm and then the vac. dropped immediately to 0". Inner tee would not hold vac. at all, vac. pump needle bouncing all over the place. So I never took the WGS apart as it passed all your tests, hope this means the WGS is good. SHOULD I BUY A NEW WGS ANYWAY?

Idle is baby smooth now, 1200rpm +- 50. Reved the motor several times (ON A TRAILER w/ flushing water), smooth acceleration up to 6500rpm. Over 6500rpm has a stumble, maybe this is because the motor has no load on it. I do not remember a stumble before, but I'm not sure if I ever exceeded 6000rpm before on a trailer nor it is wise to rev. motor this high without a load on it. (possibly spin a bearing?). So I hope I fixed it.

As always appreciate your advise.

David

 

[jrinjax]

The small fogging screw rusts quickly due to electrolysis between it and the aluminum housing. You could drill a small hole in the inlet airtube and cover it with a piece of foil tape until time to fog again.

There is a "soft Rev-Limiter at 6400 RPM and there is a "hard" [cut-out] limiter at 6600 RPM. I hit the hard limiter on my modified Hondas and it is pretty violent on the water.

I would not recommend too much revving on the trailer because inertia can carry you past the hard limiter and the major weakness of the Honda turbos is their valve springs. You can easily float a valve and shed a keeper which crashes the valve into the piston, a very expensive rebuild.

Enjoy your toy. Once you learn the maintenance on a Honda, you can run them just about forever.

There is a huge library of information in the Honda forums of PWCTODAY.COM that can provide you with anything you need to know.

 

[calivette2003]

jrinjax I'll drill a hole in that inlet airtube and use a rubber cap for future fogging. Yeah I thought about the limiter, after Iwrotethat.

Sir, thank you for all the info. God bless!

David

The small fogging screw rusts quickly due to electrolysis between it and the aluminum housing. You could drill a small hole in the inlet airtube and cover it with a piece of foil tape until time to fog again.

There is a "soft Rev-Limiter at 6400 RPM and there is a "hard" [cut-out] limiter at 6600 RPM. I hit the hard limiter on my modified Hondas and it is pretty violent on the water.

I would not recommend too much revving on the trailer because inertia can carry you past the hard limiter and the major weakness of the Honda turbos is their valve springs. You can easily float a valve and shed a keeper which crashes the valve into the piston, a very expensive rebuild.

Enjoy your toy. Once you learn the maintenance on a Honda, you can run them just about forever.

There is a huge library of information in the Honda forums of PWCTODAY.COM that can provide you with anything you need to know.

 

[jrinjax]

I hope you enjoy your toy, God's blessing to you and your Family! Let me know if you need anything else.

 

[calivette2003]

All,

I just wanted to personally thank everyone for the links and assist with the F-12X solenoid issue I had. Finally went on the water 2 weeks ago and the ski is back running full-peak. Between the cleaning of the solenoid and adding a oil-spray hole/cap to the turbo inlet hose (stock maintenance screw is frozen) I solved whatever bogging problems I had.

Again thank you for your assist.

R/
David

 

[jrinjax]

Enjoy your toy!