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When I gas my R12-x it takes off then sputters a bit, continues, then sputters again. any ideas what it may be? Its a 2003 with 91 hours. Think it could be spark plugs?? thanks
Honda sputtering at full throttle
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1 Posts
I dont know the answer but I know what your feeling. I have a 02 fx-12 and it has the same symtom, when you hold it full throttle 38 to 40 mph, thats it, if you let off a lilttle it picks up and goes for a short period of time and then dies back down. The wierd thing is that in reverse it will rev out and stay rev'ed out. Hope some one on here can help.:dunno:
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6 Posts
mine will get up to full speed , bout 63 but it sputters a bit getting up there. it doesnt die down.
Hey, did you find the fault?
I have a 2004 R-12X with exactly the same fault.
Sounds Ok on tick over and low to medium revs on trailer, but almost sounds like a rev limiter cuts in at higher revs.
On the water as soon as you accelerate at about half revs it goes all spluttery and no power, almost like someone has pulled off two spark plug leads.
I have checked the spark plugs, leads, water gate arm and actuator. Pulled apart all electrical connections and WD40ed and put back together. No leads look damaged and all connections looked good. No faults come up at all. I am mystified.
I notice that when on trailer and reving, when it does the spluttering the waste gate valve is fluttering. Not sure if it should open properly when it is not under load.
Any suggestions would be very welcome.
Thanks
Marlon
I have a 2004 R-12X with exactly the same fault.
Sounds Ok on tick over and low to medium revs on trailer, but almost sounds like a rev limiter cuts in at higher revs.
On the water as soon as you accelerate at about half revs it goes all spluttery and no power, almost like someone has pulled off two spark plug leads.
I have checked the spark plugs, leads, water gate arm and actuator. Pulled apart all electrical connections and WD40ed and put back together. No leads look damaged and all connections looked good. No faults come up at all. I am mystified.
I notice that when on trailer and reving, when it does the spluttering the waste gate valve is fluttering. Not sure if it should open properly when it is not under load.
Any suggestions would be very welcome.
Thanks
Marlon
Joined
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285 Posts
anyone checking Air Filter element? under no power out of water airflow isn't as hi, but in water under power will need much more air flow, or possible cleaning of MAF sensor. Make sure that if you clean MAF sensor use the proper cleaner for it, NOT brake clean.
Checked air filter and lines, they are as clean as a whistle. Have not checked MAF. Not sure if the fault would be something that needs cleaning because one week I was using the Ski and it was running perfectly and then 3 weeks later I put the ski in the water and it has this fault.
I think that some component must have failed.
Do these Hondas have like a diagnostics plug that a service centre could plug into and tell me the fault straight away?
Gonna check the MAF,fuel lines, filter etc on weekend.
Thanks for reply
Marlon
I think that some component must have failed.
Do these Hondas have like a diagnostics plug that a service centre could plug into and tell me the fault straight away?
Gonna check the MAF,fuel lines, filter etc on weekend.
Thanks for reply
Marlon
Joined
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285 Posts
Their is a diagnostic service plug on the honda but takes their tool to scan. You can use jumper wires to check for codes, I seen the process for doing it somplace on this site but don't remember where or who posted it sorry. Good Luck would like to know what fixes it.
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2 Posts
Same Problem
I just bought my R12X and took it out the first day, and it ran great. The second day it started up with this problem. It runs rough from idle til you get it up on plane and then limps its way to about 40. Then the turbo kicks it in the butt and it jumps to 55-60 then it shuts back down. It will continue to cut out the whole time. This sucks!!!
I just bought my R12X and took it out the first day, and it ran great. The second day it started up with this problem. It runs rough from idle til you get it up on plane and then limps its way to about 40. Then the turbo kicks it in the butt and it jumps to 55-60 then it shuts back down. It will continue to cut out the whole time. This sucks!!!
Joined
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285 Posts
Has anyone tested the Ignition coil packs? You should be able to Ohms test them but i'm not sure what the spec's are? Check them all and see if one varies from all the others, this can cause a problem. I have seen fuel pressure regulators cause this problem but hard starting is assossiated with this also. Good luck would love to know the cause of problem.
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285 Posts
Not sure if the ski's have a EGR Valve on them but would think they do for emissions, (Exhaust Gas Recirculation Valve) On car's these can stick and fail causing all of the problems listed above, what it does it put to much spent exhuast back in the system starving the motor for combustiable air, making the engine miss and sputter and have low power. This could be the cause! In auto's we use sea foam and induce it into the engine threw a vacume line, basically smoging the engine, once we have about a can sucked into the engine we let it sit for up to a hour, this will help remove the carbon inside the engine, then we restart, now a engine highly carboned up will smoke alot, and i mean alot! once it gets warmed up it will go away but may scare you on how much it smokes, and engines that have run ethonal fuel will really smoke heavly. Sea Foam will help to remove carbon from valves, exhaust, egr's and remove deposits from catalatic converters, this may help but it shouldn't hurt anything, just go slow when sucking it into the system, you will need help keeping the engine running as you induce it in the engine keeping the revs up so it won't die.
On car's the egr valve is controlled by the ecm, but not sure how of if its controlled on the honda engine in our ski's I think it may be controlled by vacume from the motor?? If anyone know's or has a shop manual look it up and let me know. I'm thinking this may be the cause. (NOTE: Stay away from ethonal blended fuels, on cars that run ethonal blended fuels we almost always have to sea foam them from carbon buildup!) Don't know why just know we do! And not trying to knock ethonal in anyway just know some things run differently on the stuff.
On car's the egr valve is controlled by the ecm, but not sure how of if its controlled on the honda engine in our ski's I think it may be controlled by vacume from the motor?? If anyone know's or has a shop manual look it up and let me know. I'm thinking this may be the cause. (NOTE: Stay away from ethonal blended fuels, on cars that run ethonal blended fuels we almost always have to sea foam them from carbon buildup!) Don't know why just know we do! And not trying to knock ethonal in anyway just know some things run differently on the stuff.
Well, I'm half way to a cure. I put in four new spark plugs and the ski now runs smooth with no spluttering. Amazing what a little servicing can do.
But
I still have a problem.... The turbo does not seem to be kicking in. Ski will only go up to about 50 - 55 mph and there is no hit of power from midrange like there used to be.
This is what I've checked:
1. Took off wastegate actuator, tried on a small air supply and sure enough starts to open at about 7 psi, fully open at about 14psi, so I think it is ok (and it holds the pressure)
2. Vacuum checked the wastegate soleniod and it did not leak.
3. Tested resistance of wastegate soleniod and it reads correct.
4. The Wastegate arm moves freely between open and shut.
What I want to try and understand is how the system works, because looking at the turbo vale drawing it looks like the gate is normally shut and you need to put pressure on the actuator to get it to open????
This sounded backwards to me but perhaps this is how it is supposed to work and the solenoid opens when the manifold pressure rises to correct level????
Perhaps a knowledgable person can enlighten me on the wastegate control system, because if I could understand how it is supposed to work, I might be able to figure the problem out.
I have watched the wastegate while the ski is running (on hosepipe though, not on load in water), and it does not move when I rev the ski, even if I hold it on the rev limiter.
Hopefully one of you guys can give me some direction or things to check, much appreciate any suggestions.
Marlon
But
I still have a problem.... The turbo does not seem to be kicking in. Ski will only go up to about 50 - 55 mph and there is no hit of power from midrange like there used to be.
This is what I've checked:
1. Took off wastegate actuator, tried on a small air supply and sure enough starts to open at about 7 psi, fully open at about 14psi, so I think it is ok (and it holds the pressure)
2. Vacuum checked the wastegate soleniod and it did not leak.
3. Tested resistance of wastegate soleniod and it reads correct.
4. The Wastegate arm moves freely between open and shut.
What I want to try and understand is how the system works, because looking at the turbo vale drawing it looks like the gate is normally shut and you need to put pressure on the actuator to get it to open????
This sounded backwards to me but perhaps this is how it is supposed to work and the solenoid opens when the manifold pressure rises to correct level????
Perhaps a knowledgable person can enlighten me on the wastegate control system, because if I could understand how it is supposed to work, I might be able to figure the problem out.
I have watched the wastegate while the ski is running (on hosepipe though, not on load in water), and it does not move when I rev the ski, even if I hold it on the rev limiter.
Hopefully one of you guys can give me some direction or things to check, much appreciate any suggestions.
Marlon
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2 Posts
Ski is fixed!!!
I know this seems like kind of a rookie mistake, but I didn't read the manual on how to properly check the oil. I assumed that you only had to check the oil in the reservoir, this was not the case as I found out. When I finally read the manual and removed the plug, oil shot out of there under pressure. When I removed all that oil and changed the oil and filter it ran like a champ. So once again, I am an idiot but that's what fixed mine.
I know this seems like kind of a rookie mistake, but I didn't read the manual on how to properly check the oil. I assumed that you only had to check the oil in the reservoir, this was not the case as I found out. When I finally read the manual and removed the plug, oil shot out of there under pressure. When I removed all that oil and changed the oil and filter it ran like a champ. So once again, I am an idiot but that's what fixed mine.
I've finally got there.
First up a quick few steps that I used that might help others.
How the Turbo works.
The wastegate is in a normally shut position, so when the ski is started exhaust gas tries to spin up the Turbo.
Once the pressure to the wastegate actuator reaches 8psi the wastegate tries to start opening to bypass exhaust gases past the Turbo veins and therefore not create any more boost pressure (I was getting about 3 - 5psi just on tick over) BUT......
In the actuator line there is a 'Wastegate Solenoid'. The engine computer monitors manifold pressure through one of the sensors and tries to get boost pressure up to 15psi. It does this by bleeding off the pressure in the acutuator line by opening and shutting the wastegate valve very rapidly, and therefore the wastegate does not open at 8psi.
So here are the tests I did to check my operation:
I put a Turbo Gauge in the waste gate line, just to make it easy to see whats going on. I had to cut in a T piece right after the pipe takes off the turbo. I think there is a restrictor in this pipeline furthur towards the actuator so you need to be as close as possible to where the pipe takes off the turbo.
Next all the following tests had to be done on the water because I found that on the hosepipe just doesn't give any usable results - do not even bother trying on hose.
I removed the the wastegate actuator control pipe altogether and gave the ski a try, go easy as the wastegate is now held shut even when boost pressure is reached. The pressure on the gauge easily went up to 15psi and over. If you take it too high the engine system should shut down on overboost.
If the pressure reaches 15psi or over you know your Turbo is actually working. If not I would suspect that the Turbo is jammed. Try pulling off the manifold hose on the turbo and turning the turbo. If it is stuck you may unstick with a small socket on the nut - go carefull and veins are sharp!.
Next, I put the pipe back onto the actuator, and removed the two pipes that are on the wastegate solenoid and joined them together. Run the ski, if it over boosts it means that the solenoid is probably stuffed or the drive signal to the solenoid is stuffed. If it does not overboost then one of the small lines into or out of the solenoid must be blocked.
If you suspect the solenoid test its resistance to make sure it is not open circuit and if that reads Ok you can actually carefully take it to bits by prising back the small metal ears. When you look inside if it is stuffed, you can see small cracks in the metalwork on the diaphram inside.
So hears the funny bit after at last working all that lot out. My turbo is working fine.
When on the water at tick over I'm getting about 3-5psi boost and then if I suddenly gun it the boost guage shoots up to about 20psi but immediately comes back to about 16psi, but I still wasn't getting the old acceleration that I used to get.
I decided to check my jet unit, lo and behold my prop was 'bent as'. It wasn't giving any out of balance symptoms but was certainly stuffed. Glad I checked the pump unit because there was also evidence of oil in the jetpump as well, so overhaulled at the same time (easy job - a lot easier than doing my Seadoo - thanks Honda).
Straightened prop and ground the edges smooth and refitted (I know I should get balance checked)
So in conclusion, Spark Plugs were making it splutter and prop was stopping me get a hit when Turbo cut in.
So back on the water last weekend and all good.
Hope this might help others
Marlon
First up a quick few steps that I used that might help others.
How the Turbo works.
The wastegate is in a normally shut position, so when the ski is started exhaust gas tries to spin up the Turbo.
Once the pressure to the wastegate actuator reaches 8psi the wastegate tries to start opening to bypass exhaust gases past the Turbo veins and therefore not create any more boost pressure (I was getting about 3 - 5psi just on tick over) BUT......
In the actuator line there is a 'Wastegate Solenoid'. The engine computer monitors manifold pressure through one of the sensors and tries to get boost pressure up to 15psi. It does this by bleeding off the pressure in the acutuator line by opening and shutting the wastegate valve very rapidly, and therefore the wastegate does not open at 8psi.
So here are the tests I did to check my operation:
I put a Turbo Gauge in the waste gate line, just to make it easy to see whats going on. I had to cut in a T piece right after the pipe takes off the turbo. I think there is a restrictor in this pipeline furthur towards the actuator so you need to be as close as possible to where the pipe takes off the turbo.
Next all the following tests had to be done on the water because I found that on the hosepipe just doesn't give any usable results - do not even bother trying on hose.
I removed the the wastegate actuator control pipe altogether and gave the ski a try, go easy as the wastegate is now held shut even when boost pressure is reached. The pressure on the gauge easily went up to 15psi and over. If you take it too high the engine system should shut down on overboost.
If the pressure reaches 15psi or over you know your Turbo is actually working. If not I would suspect that the Turbo is jammed. Try pulling off the manifold hose on the turbo and turning the turbo. If it is stuck you may unstick with a small socket on the nut - go carefull and veins are sharp!.
Next, I put the pipe back onto the actuator, and removed the two pipes that are on the wastegate solenoid and joined them together. Run the ski, if it over boosts it means that the solenoid is probably stuffed or the drive signal to the solenoid is stuffed. If it does not overboost then one of the small lines into or out of the solenoid must be blocked.
If you suspect the solenoid test its resistance to make sure it is not open circuit and if that reads Ok you can actually carefully take it to bits by prising back the small metal ears. When you look inside if it is stuffed, you can see small cracks in the metalwork on the diaphram inside.
So hears the funny bit after at last working all that lot out. My turbo is working fine.
When on the water at tick over I'm getting about 3-5psi boost and then if I suddenly gun it the boost guage shoots up to about 20psi but immediately comes back to about 16psi, but I still wasn't getting the old acceleration that I used to get.
I decided to check my jet unit, lo and behold my prop was 'bent as'. It wasn't giving any out of balance symptoms but was certainly stuffed. Glad I checked the pump unit because there was also evidence of oil in the jetpump as well, so overhaulled at the same time (easy job - a lot easier than doing my Seadoo - thanks Honda).
Straightened prop and ground the edges smooth and refitted (I know I should get balance checked)
So in conclusion, Spark Plugs were making it splutter and prop was stopping me get a hit when Turbo cut in.
So back on the water last weekend and all good.
Hope this might help others
Marlon
02 Aquatrax turbo, similar symptoms
New to the board, but been watching this problem. My symptoms: Idles fine, running on 4 cyl, apply full throttle I get a quick burst of power followed by reduced power even at WOT. Maybe 20mph tops, 3000 revs tops at full throttle. Changed fuel filter, everything fine for 1 day. Next day, back to above symptoms. Anybody got a cure before I head to the overpriced dealer??? Thanks, Unclerap
New to the board, but been watching this problem. My symptoms: Idles fine, running on 4 cyl, apply full throttle I get a quick burst of power followed by reduced power even at WOT. Maybe 20mph tops, 3000 revs tops at full throttle. Changed fuel filter, everything fine for 1 day. Next day, back to above symptoms. Anybody got a cure before I head to the overpriced dealer??? Thanks, Unclerap
Joined
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17 Posts
Sounds like fuel starvation and if the new fuel filter solved it temporarily .... must be contaminated gas. Siphon it all out and then look at the tank for any debris and get 'er real clean... or splice in an auto fuel filter that can give better flow with some debris in it.
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285 Posts
check to make sure that the turbo is spinning freely take off the air box by the turbo and reach in with your fingers without the engine running and see if the turbo is turning freely. Just has a problem with mine and I used PB Plaster on it, let it soak and all of a sudden it has been working great???? Don't know what really caused it may be unrelated but so for has worked well. Really odd.
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7 Posts
What kind of gas are you putting in it? If it's not Premium 93 octane they hiss and spit like you would not believe. I put 87 in mine once and it did the same thing. Also the spark plugs and air filter gives you a few more smooth horses...
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